Curse

LifeInfusion · Jul 08, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

To the OP: w/e man. I'd take a mesmer ANY day.

90% of Assassins on the other hand only equip attacks and little or no defensive skills.

Cookie cutter or not, the builds people use sometimes are retarded. A W/N minionmaster for example.

I am all for innovation, but not if it means the effectiveness is not there. I played an earth ele before the AOE nerf. Nobody wanted one but now in factions they have it as your friendly "Kai Ying Earth Elementalist henchman".

If you ask me, the mesmers are probably the best of the henches, they can interrupt, deal damage, and disable some abilities.

The assassin henches are the worst thing I've ever seen. All they do is spam bleeding and poison, while taking about 50 damage a hit from everything.
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P.S. And THK isn't hard. Two guildies and I henched it.

Francis Demeules · Jul 08, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

The assassin henches are the worst thing I've ever seen. All they do is spam bleeding and poison, while taking about 50 damage a hit from everything.
=========================================
P.S. And THK isn't hard. Two guildies and I henched it.

Knock down, Interrupt and Daze too.

THK? Only myself with hench. What the Prob with THK? Its cool THK!

Nightwish · Jul 08, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Cookie-cutter builds do work, better than most "think outside the box" builds

Half the time in RA, I would say losses are due to crazy and almost useless "trying to be creative" builds, like firestorm/sig of judgement warriors, monk trappers and more...

Hence, for PUGs, where cooperation and tolerance are lacking, cookie cutter build is the way to go.

I admit that OP's suggestion for more varied PVE challenge had come across my mind before, but I realized that this will cause problems to hench parties, where the AI and skills are fixed.

So unless you can somehow solve Henchies' adaptability to very different PVE challenges, this idea remains impractical.

Challenge missions are different, the players can choose not to do it, hence, a hench team is unnecessary.

FalconDance · Jul 08, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus_thom

...

After all mesmer is very usefull in pvp but not so mich in pve to me that really says something about the mob layouts no? I think it would be very interesting to vary up the opposing mobs a little so that other builds are needed to prevail after all guild wars is all about making builds to tackle the situation. Maybe the future elite missions should take this approach in which people spend weeks trying to figure a team build to tackle the place. I mean some one had to come up with the barrage build for tombs now didnt they?

Mesmers not very useful in PvE?

Been a while since you've played one, I guess. Mine was slated to be retired just before Factions came out, then she discovered a whole different appreciation. In fact, I revised her skills ever so slightly and she's set to have another go at Glint when our little group gets together again

.

Yes, the tried-and-true builds may work, but my position has always been there is room for individuality. Why should an ele run all fire if they can be efficient damage dealers using Air (or Earth or Water)? Yes, in some areas, fire works best just as in some areas blunt damage works better for warriors. But that's the area, not the predetermined skill set used.

That's why they make the attribute points changeable, guys. You know, take out points here and put them there. Swap out one weapon for another. Maybe even change your helm or resistant armor. Voila, different 'build'.

Francis Demeules · Jul 08, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

That's why they make the attribute points changeable, guys. You know, take out points here and put them there. Swap out one weapon for another. Maybe even change your helm or resistant armor. Voila, different 'build'.

Bingo, we have winner here!

My question to everyone, why players keep only ONE build over all the missions? Ring of Fire with Meteor Shower and hoping the Ranger brings Winter for you? Not every Ranger will brings this Spirit you know. Sticking with only one build will not make you experienced with that Profession. Only the build you use you will be experienced.

Andy_M · Jul 08, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Thats it, I'm digging my Mesmer out of retirement. Last seen somewhere in Sardelac, I believe.

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Why should an ele run all fire if they can be efficient damage dealers using Air (or Earth or Water)?

because earth and water do pathetic damage (i hope you not talking about killing lvl10 mobs). Air is better at this point but only useful in rare occasions when you facing fewer but stronger enemies.

Quote:

Yes, in some areas, fire works best just as in some areas blunt damage works better for warriors. But that's the area, not the predetermined skill set used.

correction: fire works the best in 99% of the areas. It got nothing to do with fire damage type, but instead effectiveness of spells fire line offers.

Quote:

That's why they make the attribute points changeable, guys. You know, take out points here and put them there. Swap out one weapon for another. Maybe even change your helm or resistant armor. Voila, different 'build'.

differrent? yes...
better? i highly doubt so.
I do run earth build quiet often when henchieing stuff, but this is only because henchmen are retarded and can not protect themselves. With human group pure damage build is soooo much better. And damage = fire. Feel free to argue about that, i'm gonna laugh.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jul 09, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

I do run earth build quiet often when henchieing stuff, but this is only because henchmen are retarded and can not protect themselves. With human group pure damage build is soooo much better. And damage = fire. Feel free to argue about that, i'm gonna laugh.

Well, Fire = AoE damage while Air = single-target damage. AoE is generally more useful in PvE, so Fire is more popular. It depends on what you want to do, and if this involves protecting your party with Wards then Fire might not be the best option.

markus_thom · Jul 09, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

That’s because outside of the lvl28 double attribute and hundreds AL bosses, caster hate easily substituted by pure damage. This isn’t a problem with cookie-cuter builds, this is a general flaw in game mechanics.

I'm glad someone is seeing my point now, in pvp people have to think of counter builds but in pve that time of game play is lacking.

How much can a mm get out of pve compared to a mesmer?
Why can a 55hp monk solo As it is meant to be a support class, and a necro summon minions and pass a majority of quests with allot more ease then other professions. Mainly because random spawns are thrown together in the same fashion over and over, allowing mm to summon over and over there’s not really many places that taking a mm is useless.

As for mesmer energy denial game it doesn’t even work due to the bosses having unlimited energy.

There are of course exceptions such as tombs where barrager/ pet parties work with mm but that’s basically as far as it goes, some rangers don’t even know other elites exist. I’d like to see them start making more areas where people actually have to start thinking about new builds.

Because as people have been stating in this thread aoe of effect attacks with the fire elem are much more usefull in much more scenarios then a water elem.

Now if we had a lv 30 assasin enemy that comes in with running skills, does huge damages then maybe a water elem would prove usefull to slow down the assasin and slow him for other units on the team to take him out.

OFF TOPIC

Just thought of a mad idea, anyone rember the defend maps in warcraft where you build towers to stop the enemies reaching the tree. Well why not add a quest where you have huge amounts of enemies running to a perticulor outpost that dont actually stop to attack you. The aim of the challenge is to stop as many units as you can reaching that outpost or place.

Francis Demeules · Jul 09, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus_thom

As for mesmer energy denial game it doesn’t even work due to the bosses having unlimited energy.

Bosses haven't unlimited Energy. I can't say I can't prove it they have unlimited Energy, but they havent an unlimited energy. Players thought the Doppleganger has unlimited Energy due of his lot of spells cast. Tested against it and remove all his energy with my mesmer in under 20 sec. He has about 40-50 energy max.

^Zos Shivros Channel: Kill the ennemies as long as you can to defend your priest.

Markaedw · Jul 09, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I like to make up some nice builds, but in defense of the cookie cutter, there is little team communication. Once it hits the fan, you can't start stratagizing, so you stick with the basics, with what you know works.

LifeInfusion · Jul 09, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Knock down, Interrupt and Daze too.

THK? Only myself with hench. What the Prob with THK? Its cool THK!

KD? Devona/Kai Ying
Interrupt? Daeman/Erys Vasburg
Daze? It's less than 10 seconds...and Daeman has BROADHEAD ARROW.

All in all it is pointless, they die too fast to be called worth bringing. Viper's Defense basically means super-aggro.

Francis Demeules · Jul 09, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

KD? Devona/Kai Ying
Interrupt? Daeman/Erys Vasburg
Daze? It's less than 10 seconds...and Daeman has BROADHEAD ARROW.

All in all it is pointless, they die too fast to be called worth bringing. Viper's Defense basically means super-aggro.

I talk about Panaku skills: Jagged (bleeding), Entangling Asp (KD and poison), Viper Defense (poison), Beguiling Haze (Interrupt and Daze). You dont have Deamen in your team in Boreas Seabed with full henchies and see Zhu Hanuku Dazed when I havent any daze attacks on me as a Mesmer.

I dont say they godly. But they die bc they try to TANK. These hench is a good exemple for anyone who want to tank anyway as a Ammo. Even giving Build to tank with it. they're not a primary tank. Even not as a secondary.

felinette · Jul 09, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

I recently played that one Luxon mission where you have to protect the baby turtles from the Kurzicks with my ranger/monk. It was the wierdest build I ever played.

I did something like that with my R/Mo when I henched arborstone. Danika kept buying it at one point, so I changed my build to essentially bond her through the mission. It worked!

thor hammerbane · Jul 09, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I, and I'm sure most of you, think outside the box when making a team, But assasins do not belong in PvE..That is just my philosophy, If i'm feeling lucky and it's an easy mission, I'll get a single assasin, otherwise I mix and match with the 7 other profs and make a useful team.

Sorry, but assasins are just wannabee ninjas.

Francis Demeules · Jul 09, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I, and I'm sure most of you, think outside the box when making a team, But assasins do not belong in PvE..That is just my philosophy, If i'm feeling lucky and it's an easy mission, I'll get a single assasin, otherwise I mix and match with the 7 other profs and make a useful team.

Sorry, but assasins are just wannabee ninjas.

Critical or Bloody Barrager, they live more than trying to "Tank" against the mobs. Celestials Assassins skill is really damn good at the end.

Stockholm · Jul 09, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I, and I'm sure most of you, think outside the box when making a team, But assasins do not belong in PvE..That is just my philosophy, If i'm feeling lucky and it's an easy mission, I'll get a single assasin, otherwise I mix and match with the 7 other profs and make a useful team.

Sorry, but assasins are just wannabee ninjas.

It's like taking a Warrior to Urgoz's, a wasted slot.
Assasins have there place in PvE, you just have to team up with a good one, then you might change your mind.

Francis Demeules · Jul 09, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Lyssa's professions always not very appreciated in PvE..... again. Ritualist and Assassins are still youngs. They need to learn to grow up to be average professions like others.

They can't be good like that in few sec. Let them the time to learn how to play and see.

Rent · Jul 09, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Lyssa's professions always not very appreciated in PvE..... again. Ritualist and Assassins are still youngs. They need to learn to grow up to be average professions like others.

They can't be good like that in few sec. Let them the time to learn how to play and see.

It's been two months; how long are you planning to wait?

Skuld · Jul 09, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFrost

Well for example Thirsty River encourages it but some players don't want to listen

Two monks is overkill, why not try that mesmer who's been shouting "LFG for the love of God, please! LFG!" in the corner ever since your first failed attempt 2 hours ago?

I would never take someone saying that.. "Ooh LFG, just guess what I do why don't you!!"